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What is this?
Jet base could be in play
Is the OLF just a precursor?
Published Saturday, February 6, 2010
FRANKLIN—When Naval Air Station Oceana was built in the 1940s, it was designed as an Outlying Landing Field to support nearby Naval Air Station Norfolk.
During the following decade, Oceana — surrounded by farms and not under the same limitations for growth as NAS Norfolk — was expanded to serve as the East Coast Master Jet Base, a coveted designation that it still holds today while serving as the home base for 17 squadrons of fighter planes.
Part of its mission is to train the pilots of those planes, but that mission that has become more difficult over the years with the unchecked growth of Virginia Beach and neighboring Chesapeake. While the Beach enjoys an economic benefit from thousands of direct and indirect jobs tied to the base, some of its residents have been complaining for years about the jet noise.
Which begs the question: With Oceana as their guide, are the Navy’s proposals to build an OLF somewhere in Western Tidewater or northeast North Carolina merely the opening act of a major plan to move the East Coast Master Jet Base?
Some see that as a distinct possibility. Others do not.
The plans were there
The leading proponent of the concept of an OLF eventually transitioning to the Master Jet Base is William “Skip” Zobel, a 26-year Navy veteran and a former commander of Oceana.
Now retired and working as a field representative for the Norfolk office of U.S. Sen. Mark Warner (D-Va.), Zobel wrote an opinion piece on March 24 for the Web site military.com, where he makes the case that an OLF will transition one day to a new Master Jet Base.
“If the Navy really wants to get serious about building another field, then they need to come out and say the site chosen will be their future Naval Air Station,” Zobel wrote. “Quite frankly, I think those plans were in the works when the site in Washington County (N.C.) was being considered. There were actual plans for the Washington County site to be the next Master Jet Base.”
Zobel added that the plans were “kept very quiet because the Navy knew the political climate was not right at the time. Sen. John Warner was too powerful for the Navy to announce that Oceana would one day move from Virginia, and the economic benefit of NAS Oceana in Virginia Beach and Hampton Roads is staggering and would upset many local politicians. Well, Sen. Warner has retired, but the area still reaps the benefit.”
The Navy, Zobel believes, has two options. The first would be to buy, and presumably demolish, homes around Naval Auxiliary Landing Field Fentress in Chesapeake — the current OLF that supports Oceana — thereby darkening the evening skies around Fentress and making training more realistic.
The other option would be to build a new Master Jet Base somewhere in Virginia or North Carolina.
“Use it as an OLF at first, and then transition it to a full operating base,” Zobel wrote. “The first option does nothing to help with surge operations, but so what? The second option will send the signal that economic benefit is coming to the area selected, and the noise issues around Oceana and Fentress will eventually go away.”
Zobel declined to comment for this story, other than to say that he stands by what he wrote in his column. He also declined to name any other Navy officials, either current or retired, who may have seen the Washington County plans.
‘Not in the cards’
Barry Steinberg is an attorney with the Washington-based law firm Kutak Rock LLP and represents five Virginia counties that are against the OLF.
He says he doubts that a new Master Jet Base will be coming to Western Tidewater.
“As the cards are played and laid on the table today, a Master Jet Base for the region is not in the cards,” Steinberg said. “It doesn’t exist.”
Steinberg suggests that there are two main reasons for this.
The first reason, Steinberg said, is that the Navy doesn’t believe it needs to replace Oceana, despite the conclusion of the 2005 Base Closure and Realignment Commission that “the future of naval aviation is not Oceana.”
Said Steinberg: “Everybody that has looked at this issue has, in essence, (told the Navy) ‘there is an elephant in your living room.’ The elephant is Oceana as a long-term, viable Master Jet Base. The Navy wants to tell me the elephant isn’t there. They say Oceana is fine.”
He adds, “I know you’ve got citizens in your community (asking) why aren’t we exploring this and keeping an open mind? Tell me what the open mind is when the party on the other side of the equation has said ‘I don’t need your Master Jet Base; I’ve got one and it works just fine for me?’ As long as the Navy sticks by its guns, I don’t know how I can enter into a meaningful dialog.”
Even if the Navy did announce that they want to replace Oceana, doing so would be problematic.
“Are they going to turn on a dime and say Oceana really isn’t fine?” Steinberg asked. “It would be interesting to watch them try and explain that one, of why they did the flip.”
He added that Western Tidewater wouldn’t be guaranteed Oceana’s replacement.
“They would look at alternatives,” Steinberg said. “There is no guarantee it would come to your community. (The Navy) will probably say ‘if you take the OLF, we certainly would give serious consideration to putting a Master Jet Base out there.’ But you’re not going to get a commitment. You’re not going to know for a long time whether you would get the Master Jet Base.”
Where there’s a will, there’s a way
Steinberg said a second roadblock to building a new Master Jet Base anywhere is getting the money for the facility, which could cost upwards of $3 billion, appropriated from Congress.
“I don’t believe that there is presently in the Congress a will to go out and take a couple of billion dollars and sinking it into a new Master Jet Base,” Steinberg said.
He cautions that if a community were to “give up objections to the OLF now, you are now dependent on a congressional appropriation. You’re talking about a couple of billion dollars, minimum. When will Congress appropriate that money and what assurance does a local community have that when they approve the OLF that the Master Jet Base is coming? Absolutely none.”
For the love of money
Then there is a private option: A federal program called Real Property Exchange, or RPX.
Under that program, a private developer could theoretically purchase the land needed for a new Master Jet Base from willing sellers, build the facility to Navy specifications, and then swap the new base for the valuable land that Oceana sits on in Virginia Beach. Landowners would need to be willing to sell, because a private developer would not have the powers of eminent domain.
“I am not aware of anyone ever discussing this,” Steinberg said of RPX. “But there are reasons you would do it. The Navy would get a 21st Century base, they would get it out of a congested area, it wouldn’t be crammed down the throats of people who don’t want it and you don’t have to ask Congress to authorize the funds.”
But he warned that there were a few pitfalls to the RPX idea.
“I don’t know what the (real estate) value of Oceana is, or how much it would cost to build a new Master Jet Base,” Steinberg said. “The private sector may say that the numbers are too far apart. The numbers may not work. But they might.”
Any shortfall in funds between the cost of building a new Master Jet Base and the real estate value of Oceana to compensate a private developer would have to be appropriated by Congress, Steinberg said.
He added that elected leaders at the state and national level could nix the idea of closing Oceana.
“Virginia Beach is the largest city in the state, with thousands of voters, and what they say is going to matter a whole lot more than what Western Tidewater says,” Steinberg said. “Sen. (Jim) Webb, Sen. (Mark) Warner and Gov. (Bob) McDonnell don’t want to disturb the status quo.
“There are two huge issues here — jobs and national security. Who wants to run for re-election accused of not supporting those two?”
He adds, “The commonwealth would do well to think about this, because if they don’t get ahead of the curve on this, the Master Jet Base doesn’t necessarily stay in Virginia. But, politically, I don’t know if we have the will to do that kind of thinking.”
Another problem: Virginia Beach will fight to keep Oceana and the jobs it provides.
“Virginia Beach is a destination tourist mecca,” Steinberg said, but added that even though the real estate under Oceana would go back onto the Beach’s tax roles if it became available for development, “they don’t want to lose (the base) and they will fight it.”
“They don’t want to lose 12,000 jobs in Hampton Roads. They don’t love ‘the sound of freedom’ as they call it. They love the money.”
The Beach comes out swinging
Virginia Beach officials clearly have that on their mind. Twice during the last two weeks, the city’s assistant city manager, Bob Matthias, testified against proposed legislation in the state General Assembly that threatened to derail the OLF.
“I talked about how important Oceana was to the economy of the Commonwealth,” Matthias said Friday, adding that he mentioned “the impact of $1.3 billion (on the local economy), 12,000 very good-paying jobs and how the Navy was committed to Oceana.”
Matthias said he spoke before the Senate Committee on Privileges and Elections on Jan. 26 and the House of Delegates Committee on Counties, Cities and Towns on Thursday.
“Virginia Beach had downzoned one-third of our land area to maintain Oceana,” Matthias said. “We have an excellent working relationship with the Navy. We spent about $78 million over the last five years buying up land around Oceana.”
Asked if there were fears among Virginia Beach officials that Oceana could possibly close, the East Coast Master Jet Base moved elsewhere, Matthias said “none whatsoever.”
“They’re not moving at all,” Matthias said. “The Navy is only going to buy 2,000 acres fee simple and then take an easement on another 10,000 acres or so. When they were looking at the Washington County site, they were going to buy 30,000 acres fee simple because they were indeed thinking of another Master Jet Base at that time.”
He added, “The Navy has no desire to move from Oceana and no need to move from Oceana. They have told us that repeatedly.”
Navy officials said they remained committed to Oceana and finding an OLF, nothing more.
“The Navy has no plans to move the Master Jet Base from Naval Air Station Oceana to any other location,” said Ted Brown, media relations officer for the Navy’s Fleet Public Affairs Office. “With the additional Outlying Landing Field, we expect Oceana to be viable for the foreseeable future.”
If not here, where?
Steinberg said he thinks the most likely scenario is for the East Coast Master Jet Base to eventually be relocated to what is currently Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point, which is in Havelock, N.C.
“I think the more likely place that they would go is probably Cherry Point,” Steinberg said. “There are strong elements down there that want it. They would have to build a lot, but not as much as starting from scratch. It would certainly be cheaper, and you would be increasing the aviation noise in a community that already has aviation noise.”
He dismissed the idea of the Navy possibly reopening Naval Air Station Cecil Field, located just outside of Jacksonville, Fla.
“They won’t go back to Cecil,” Steinberg said. “Cecil is gone; that train left the station long ago. The community down there has done things that essentially make the Navy very unwelcome down there now. They have turned Cecil into other uses. It’s not viable.”
Asked if he think Zobel is accurate in his assertion that the Master Jet Base may have come to Washington County, N.C., Steinberg said yes.
“Skip was in a position to know what he knew,” Steinberg said. “He was in a position to see the documents and talk to the people who were in the planning side. If Skip tells you that he saw it, my reaction is he saw it and it existed.”
He added that he didn’t know if current plans for an OLF in Western Tidewater or northeastern North Carolina contained the plans to someday evolve into a Master Jet Base.
But he doubts it.
“I don’t think it is part of the current plan,” Steinberg said. “I could be wrong. I haven’t seen the documents. I’m not privy to internal Navy dialog and discussion and things like that. I’ve not seen anything.”
Local reaction
Local officials were divided over how likely a new Master Jet Base would be and whether the community would embrace it.
Franklin Mayor Jim Councill said Friday that the question of whether the Navy was looking to move the Master Jet Base had come up recently in “two separate conversations not related to each other” with two Navy admirals.
The mayor confirmed that Rear Adm. David Anderson — the Vice Commander for U.S. Fleet Forces Command and the Navy’s point man in getting the OLF built — was one of the admirals, but declined to identify the other.
“They have said that is not even a consideration, that the OLF is strictly the OLF and there is no interest at all in moving the Master Jet Base from Oceana,” Councill said. “They feel like Oceana will serve them well way into the future if they can meet their other needs with an outlying landing field.”
Councill said the admirals also dismissed the suggestion that the Navy ever seriously thought of moving the Master Jet Base to Washington County, N.C.
“The comment (the admirals made) was that was never the plan, that it was all a bunch of speculation,” Councill said.
Assistant Southampton County Administrator Jay Randolph concurred.
“Any talk of the military formulating a base out here would be very premature and somewhat speculative,” Randolph said. “I think a major military installation would be somewhat disruptive to the way of life out here.”
Randolph added, “We support our country, we’re very patriotic and we support our military and wish them the best of luck and success in all that they do. (But) there are appropriate places to have military bases, and there are some less-than-desirable places to have military bases. We probably fall in the second category.”
Anita Felts, who represents the Jerusalem District on the Southampton County Board of Supervisors, said she didn’t think county residents would welcome the Master Jet Base.
“There would still be quite a bit of opposition, because that would destroy what we in this area have learned to love about living in Southampton County,” Felts said. “If the OLF comes in as unwanted as it is now and disrupts the communities, then there would be a lot of negativity out there.”
Mark Fetherolf, who represents Ward 6 on the Franklin City Council, said the Navy — and the federal government — would “do what was in their best interests, but that’s not necessarily what’s in our best interests.”
“We have people who are going to be unemployed or are going to be finding jobs outside of the area,” Fetherolf said. “If the Navy brings that in, then they’re going to bring in new people. But we have to be committed to the people here. We need to look after our own, so to speak.”
Asked if the pending closure of the International Paper Co. mill has an affect on the Master Jet Base issue, Fetherolf said, “It shouldn’t, if we stand on principle. But if we stand on economics, then it may.”
Franklin City Councilman Benny Burgess said it was up to the community to decide if the Master Jet Base was compatible.
“If it works, and the community feels like it’s something that we as a community could support, I’m in favor of it,” Burgess, who represents Ward 2, said Friday. “But I think it’s got to be something that the community says is something we really need to look at.”
Burgess added, “There is a huge concern that if you bring the Master Jet Base here that it’s not going to be ‘sweet little old Franklin and Southampton County.’ It’s going to be a huge influx of people and infrastructure, and our quiet little way of living is going to change. Some people will like that, and some people won’t.”
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Comments
Posted by grantsara83 (anonymous) on February 6, 2010 at 11:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Usual Sen. Warner. He and his muse Sen. Jim Webb offer nothing for this area that would cause it's citizens to accept an OLF. I spent almost all of my patriotism by being fooled by then President LBJ. This is definately not a patriotic project.
Posted by Chrissy (anonymous) on February 6, 2010 at 12:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"sweet little old Franklin and Southampton County" has Burgess said, will change the day the last person walks out of IP and they shut the doors...
Posted by bluefishgertie (anonymous) on February 6, 2010 at 1:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The Franklin International Jet Port, was deemed a viable site. If Benny and his constituents want a OLF/Master Jet Base, then the Jet Port on Rte. 58 would be a fitting location. But wait the Jet Port is located in Isle of Wight. Their citizens, being smarter than Franklinites they quickly recognized the total lack of verasity by Adm. Andererson and his minions. They quickly declined the jobs filled offer. Well back to square one, Virginia Beach, that patriotic land of hypocrisy.
Posted by workingtodamill (anonymous) on February 6, 2010 at 2:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
As I said before, this is the only viable option. I say we either get it all or nothing. This would bring good jobs to the area. While I am no fan of the noise that would be created, we might as well get the most out of it. I wonder what the folks in VaBeach think of this.
Posted by hawkgirl (anonymous) on February 6, 2010 at 6:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I think these articles help no one. The Navy has said No new jet base, yet people want to confuse citizens and rehash all this old news. Most news articles do help to get information out, but some people take what they read as gospel, and then the rumor factory starts and people are more confused than ever. The citizens of Washington County were never offered the possibility of a new jet base and they suffered for 7 long years. Oceana will try to pull as many new f-35's to their base as possible even though they know they have gross encroachment problems, not capacity. No matter which site is picked, even if the OLF did have a few jobs, you are talking at least 2 years before construction which would not help the current employment problems. Do you really think people can wait 2 years for jobs no matter which site is targeted?
Posted by RobertM (anonymous) on February 6, 2010 at 7:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hogwash!
Posted by mellowyellow (anonymous) on February 6, 2010 at 7:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Please visit the Navy"s official website: OLFEIS http://www.olfeis.com/about.aspx
"The Navy proposes to acquire property interests in approximately 30,000 acres for the OLF through a combination of fee simple purchase and the purchase of restrictive use or conservation easements. No aircraft squadrons or squadron personnel would be stationed at the OLF."
This corrects Mr. Mathias's mistatement about " 10,000 acres or so" and verifies that the Navy is not looking for a new MJB.
The Tidewater News could better serve the community by researching and verifying information before printing.
Posted by Tuesday (anonymous) on February 9, 2010 at 9:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
23knowitall ---- thank you, thank you, thank you for your comments. You have summed up in a nutshell what I have been thinking since the talk of OLF started, and I am a lifelong resident of Southampton Co/Franklin.
Well, you stated everything but this - "No OLF" really means "No, I don't support our troops, if our troops are anywhere near my home or comfort zone."
Posted by Timberlake (anonymous) on February 9, 2010 at 11:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Tuesday,Thanks be to God I never had to serve in a foxhole with you. I understand the point you were trying to make but what a shameful way to express it.
Posted by SilverBullet (anonymous) on February 9, 2010 at 12:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I have been wondering how the location of the master jet base and OLF impacts us overall in the case of attacks by enemies. Are we more likely to be attached because of its presence or less likely?
I have become convinced that having a strong military presence to protect our coast is necessary and beneficial. But, forgiving a potentially selfish moment, would we be inviting trouble? Would it be safer if it were located a certain distance further south?
Posted by Tuesday (anonymous) on February 9, 2010 at 3:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
My opinion, which is based on questions I have asked several "No OLF"ers regarding why they do not support the OLF, came after realizing the people I was speaking to had no clear reasoning for being against it other than the fact that everyone else in the neighborhood was against it.
And you call me "shameful"? I don't agree with ignorance and am willing to address it, and I am "shameful"? Shame on you for thinking that your opinion of my statements is noteworthy.
Posted by Timberlake (anonymous) on February 9, 2010 at 7:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
yes, to answer your first and second question
Posted by allsites (anonymous) on February 9, 2010 at 7:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
23knowitall thank you for your comments.
Posted by farmingVA (anonymous) on February 9, 2010 at 8:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Being a part of Western Tidewater means being a part of a rural farming heritage, as evident by the vast number of Century Farms in our area. No one in the NO VA OLF organization has ever said that they did not support servicemen, our military, etc. Farm families have always included men in uniform, so stop the name calling. One of the many questions that is raised by us is, why aren't those in VB who have sued the Navy, and are continuing to sue, over jet noise deemed "unpatriotic"? One of the main points by the VB group, Concerned Citizens Against Jet Noise" was stated on their website and in public meetings, and that was that their property values would go up without the jet noise. So this group recommended the 'noise' being dumped to a rural area. There are so many NO-BENEFITS from hosting an OLF in the rural landscape, and others have repeated them over and over again (please refer to remarks by allsites and recent TN interview with Barry Steinberg, for instance). It is patrioitc to defend your homeland, and frankly, I feel like I have to defend my great-great-great-grandfather's farm against a very vocal group of citizens in VB. Is the OLF about training or property values? The long history of the law suits in VB reveal it is about property values.
Posted by farmingVA (anonymous) on February 10, 2010 at 3:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Where to begin with this statement? "There are no bars in town, no clubs, not much shopping, no family entertainment centers... With growth and development you get all of this plus better school systems, more tax incentives, etc" Well, there are some pretty awful schools in the cities even with growth and development. Tax incentives, gee, Franklin is receiving this as one of 4 sites. And, do not even go there with the lack of bars, clubs, shopping galore and family entertainment centers. If we wanted these, the movie theatre would be hopping and the skating rink would be hopping even more. Bars and clubs, why would anyone want these as opposed to hunting and fishing (different areas are required to enjoy these 'hobbies' in). If you want a bar than go live in a big city and enjoy their downtown area; if you want to hunt and fish, then live in the country. These are simply different life style choices. VA would be a poorer place not to have opera to enjoy in the cities and record bass to catch in the millponds. We shouldn't impose our lifestyle desires on each other (replace my fishin hole with a bar, really? I am so happy my children would rather fish than go bar hopping, but these are my rural values).
Posted by Timberlake (anonymous) on February 10, 2010 at 8:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Tuesday, I never said your comments weren't noteworty....they are, I took note.
Posted by Carolyn (anonymous) on February 10, 2010 at 10:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Who cares about Washington, DC? God does, I do and many more Americans too. I'm betting many of those Americans make IOW, Southampton, Surry and the surrounding area home. I hope I can forget I read that comment.
Posted by SueAnn (anonymous) on February 11, 2010 at 12:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Why do we keep hearing how good the Dory site would be for Franklin? How will having the OLF bring jobs and new residents to Franklin? The Navy personel will not be staying in the OLF area, but, in VB. Have you ever checked WHERE the Dory OLF is? Franklin is at least 15 miles away. You think it is ok to have people's properties taken, some of the people's livelihood taken, as, they may not be able to plant crops they have been doing ( navy will say what can be planted), and not have the say on what they can do with THEIR property and pay taxes on?
Stop saying how good it would be for Franklin, Franklin has nothing to do with the OLF!
Check out the Dory site
http://www.olfeis.com/documents/maps/Dor...
Posted by PreserveNature (anonymous) on February 11, 2010 at 1:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
farmingVa has said it well and supports all of my previous posts on past stories related to this invasion of our quality of life.
This area is and has always been a Rural farming region. Those of us who have lived here all our lives, whose parents, grandparents and great-grandparents worked these precious lands all their lives do not deserve and are not going to stand for any change that would eliminate the quality of life that we all love here.
We have those posting on here that wonder why there are no nightclubs, or bars or any other entertainment in town. Like farmingVA has stated, we have plenty of entertainment here. It may not be what city folks like, but this is not the city. True, we do not have the clubs and bars here; moreover, we do not have the crime rate associated with those establishments either. We like it just fine this way. Every night on the local news, there is a vicious crime committed in localities that have bars and strip clubs, and such "entertainment." Is this what we want in Western Tidewater? I'm pretty sure I can speak for all Natives by simply saying, "NO." We need to repsect our heritage and our land and not sell out because of the mill closing. Yes, it is going to be tough for many of us, but there are more options to consider that will preserve our quality of life here. Plans are aready in place to recover from the loss of the mill and I urge everyone to stay strong against this OLF or Master Jet Base, or whatever they call it to sugarcoat the obvious fact that our lives and peace and quiet will forever change. Fighting for ones land does not make one "unpatriotic," nor does it mean we don't support our troops. It makes us proud Americans. I have many cousins, nephews and other family members who serve in our Military and every one of them knows I am proud and totally support them.
I'm just tired of folks coming in here and trying to treat our land that we have tended for so long like it is their own. If anyone wants jet noise, bars, clubs, high crime, murder, rape, etc., I suggest you move to Va. Beach or Washington D.C. or New York City and leave our land alone.
Posted by bluefishgertie (anonymous) on February 11, 2010 at 2:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Carolyn, your god know all about D.C. and believe me, he shares my same thoughts. Now, my God believes we should be left alone by self serving people that reside Va. Beach. Why do they not want to support their service members? Remember and believe what I am saying, we do not want YOUR OLF.
Posted by PreserveNature (anonymous) on February 11, 2010 at 10:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It is funny how people think we want to turn our part of America into a booming metropolis. In fact, most of these people have moved here to get away from the noise and crime and fast living of the big city. If the city was so great, why don't these people just go back? Why try to change our area into something that they have already left?
It should be loud and clear as stated by many here and in previous blogs that we love our county just the way it is.
If we have nothing here but farms and agribusiness, etc., then that is what Southampton County is all about. We are not Norfolk, Va. Beach, Philadelphia, NewYork, etc. If young people want to go elsewhere to dwell and start their careers, then good for them. I wish them all the luck. However, when outsiders try to come in and convince us that we need an OLF or MJB to help our area, they are barking up the wrong tree (for city folks that means we are not falling for it.) You can keep your bars, clubs, strip joints, rapes, robberies, jet noise and murders. We'll keep our little part of America civil, quiet and peaceful just as it has been for hundreds of years.
Posted by allsites (anonymous) on February 12, 2010 at 7:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
PreservNature is addressing one of the huge disparity problems with this OLF that the Navy is proposing. Choice. Choice is, and always will, and always must be in the hands of the people and never the government.
Since the Navy has not demonstrate that their need is genuine, but has proven this proposal is a want, then the people and local government must be given the choice to participate in this venture between the Navy and VB, Chesapeake, and Norfolk local governments. Since the Navy insists on having two different standards of how local governments will participate in this program, the local governments and people have the right to question, and to opt not to join, if they so wish.
The Navy's intended method of compliance to supporting the mission demonstrates that they only desire one runway that properly supports the mission of training our carrier based pilots. It further demonstrates that the Navy has no desire to bring Oceana, Chambers Field or Fentress up to a standard that enables these fields to properly perform the mission of training our carrier pilots. The Navy will not force the LG of VB, Chesapeake, or Norfolk to support the training mission of the facilities within their jurisdiction. The actions of the Navy demonstrate that even with this OLF, our pilots will not have the training facilities they need to properly train our pilots. This OLF will not fix the problems Oceana has.
The Navy does recognize that VB, Chesapeake, and Norfolk have the right of choice. The Navy continues to give those LG the right to say, "we do not desire, or cannot do what is required to make the facility in our jurisdiction properly perform the mission" and the Navy accepts that finding. The Navy has demonstrated what they are empowered to do, that is spelled out in the Land Acquisition of their official website for this project.
Since the Navy continues to give those three LG the choices of what to do with their communities, the Navy should also honor the choices of the LG at the 5 sites. If they say, "no thank you", the Navy should not condemn one single acre for this project.
There are many choices being allowed in this process by the Navy. The only group that is not being allowed to choose is the LG that the Navy decides should support the various choices the Navy, and VB, Chesapeake, and Norfolk LGs has made.
PreserveNature is dead on target. The local government and people have the right to choose how their community shall move forward. If it is to stay rural, grow into a metropolis, join in a partnership with VB, Chesapeake and Norfolk by accepting this OLF in their community, or if they opt to say, "no thank you Navy" the choices should be made by the LG and community, and not by the Navy.
The Navy should enable, and honor these 5 sites the choice to host this OLF, just like they are doing now around their current 6 runways. They should also honor and respect the choice the 5 communities make.
Posted by Timberlake (anonymous) on February 12, 2010 at 9:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This Hatfield/McCoy thing has got to stop. There is this ridiculous notion around here that Virginia Beach wants to dump on Western areas, (that Suffolk looks down on iSle of Wight, Isle of Wight looks down on Franklin, Franklin looks down on Courtland, Courtland looks down on Capron, Capron looks down on Drewryville, Drewryville looks down on Emporia) In fact, we better pull together. United we stand, divided we fall.
Posted by Timberlake (anonymous) on February 12, 2010 at 12:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yes knowitall, that is what eminent domain is. It's what the government did to build Rt. 58 and Rt. 35 through people's farms....it's what they do for any project that benefits society as a whole over the individual property owner. otherwise, we would have no highways, railroad tracks, airports OR military facilities.
Posted by Timberlake (anonymous) on February 12, 2010 at 12:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
they don't "take" it, they buy it
Posted by allsites (anonymous) on February 12, 2010 at 1:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Timberlake, you are correct, to a point. They will take it through condemnation.
I contend that the Navy will overstep their boundries in this process. The Navy did condemn, and TAKE lands via the eminent domain process even if they do not need the lands. In Washington County, the Navy did condemn lands from an individual. They did eminent domain the property. They payed the guy a sum for the land. Now, the Navy has this land that they have no need for. Society is not benefiting by the Navy taking that land. While it would be nice to accept that our government wont take lands from property owners on a whim, the Navy has done it for this project. What are they doing with that land now? It is called "excess" land. It went from gotta have, to excess in less than 5 years. The study was not properly completed for their taking of the land, and they already have to dump it.
With regard to actions taken once the decision is made, I would have to say yes there is. The Navy made a record of decision to build at the Washington County site in 2003. After they made the decision, litigation occured. Folks got further knowledge on the process, and the data. NC representatives acknowledged what the people were saying. Eventually, Rep Price of NC pulled the funding for this project in the appropriations committee or sub-committee.
The quick answer is once they make a decision, it has to go to Congress for approval. The fat lady is not singing with the Record of Decision. It is another step. At some point, Webb, Warner, Hagen, and Burr plus our representatives will officially weigh in on this Record of Decision. After their decision, it is almost over. It then goes for appropriations, etc. But effectively what they desire, will probably stay through the rest of the process, unless there is another compelling lawsuit like Southern Environmental Law Center introduced on behalf of Pequoson Wildlife Refuge and the tunda swans and geese. Then all bets are off again.
Posted by Moyockboy (anonymous) on February 12, 2010 at 9:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Knowitall,
I find it interesting that your "company" has such insider information on where the OLF is going when even our Senators and Congressmen don't know yet. Please enlighten us. Unless your "company" is Blackwater, I doubt you know what you are talking about. The Navy has been as tight-lipped as can be about where this OLF is going. I find it very hard to believe that they would tip off the likes of you so that you can go spouting it on a blog. If you have a link to Blackwater, you might as well go ahead and spill it because they are the only "company" that would know.
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